Comments on: Mail security tips http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/ Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:24:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Kate http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-224859 Kate Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:15:29 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-224859 drop by, nice blog. drop by, nice blog.

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By: Jeff Atkinson http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158742 Jeff Atkinson Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:56:12 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158742 Becauseyouspam, it sounds like you don't understand fully how strong multi-factor authentication system's work. They operate passively in the background without the user knowing about them, very similarly to how Yahoo collects web surfing data about their customers using web beacons, cookies, behavioral marketing software, cross-site scripting from third parties, and other tools that gather data about the customer. The authentication software runs in background and gathers information about the user's profile. Some users always login from a particular geo-location or computer/network and would only have one entry in their profile. Other users might travel or use public computers, login from varied geo-locations or computers/networks, and that user's profile would reflect what's called a "roaming" profile. The same applies for mobile users. For a "roamer", the profile for that user would show that they travel and often use varied computer/networks. Rules can be tailored to allow challenges at varied levels so as to not be incovenient to the user. Obviously, banks and financial institutions would require tougher challenges than do free email services. However, with Yahoo entering the payment field, they should be taking the same precautions with user accounts as financial institutions must to comply with FFIEC rules for multi-factor authentication. If they want to enter that game, they have to increase their level of protections on customer accounts and data. The strong multi-factor authentication should provide security for those concerned with data breaches, phishing, trojans and worms that collect login credentials to empty bank accounts, or in Sarah Palin's instance, violated the privacy of her account due to weak security questions. Again, there's nothing that prevents mobile access or access from roaming locations. Becauseyouspam, it sounds like you don’t understand fully how strong multi-factor authentication system’s work. They operate passively in the background without the user knowing about them, very similarly to how Yahoo collects web surfing data about their customers using web beacons, cookies, behavioral marketing software, cross-site scripting from third parties, and other tools that gather data about the customer.

The authentication software runs in background and gathers information about the user’s profile. Some users always login from a particular geo-location or computer/network and would only have one entry in their profile. Other users might travel or use public computers, login from varied geo-locations or computers/networks, and that user’s profile would reflect what’s called a “roaming” profile.

The same applies for mobile users. For a “roamer”, the profile for that user would show that they travel and often use varied computer/networks. Rules can be tailored to allow challenges at varied levels so as to not be incovenient to the user. Obviously, banks and financial institutions would require tougher challenges than do free email services. However, with Yahoo entering the payment field, they should be taking the same precautions with user accounts as financial institutions must to comply with FFIEC rules for multi-factor authentication. If they want to enter that game, they have to increase their level of protections on customer accounts and data.

The strong multi-factor authentication should provide security for those concerned with data breaches, phishing, trojans and worms that collect login credentials to empty bank accounts, or in Sarah Palin’s instance, violated the privacy of her account due to weak security questions. Again, there’s nothing that prevents mobile access or access from roaming locations.

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By: becauseyouspam http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158696 becauseyouspam Mon, 22 Sep 2008 02:50:32 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158696 dan stevens, machine fingerprinting should be completely out of the question, blocking proxies too. Reasons are simple: First you can get e-mail everywhere, free or very cheap. I don't think there is anyone who'd use an email service who's fingerprinting their hard and software (on top of the data mining they already do). Secondly you'd eliminate mobile access with that kind of attitude. Now why do you think do so many people use webmail in the first place? Right, it's the remote access they are looking for. And talking about security: NO ONE should use webmail providers like yahoo, google, microsoft etc. if it's not for mobile access! However, the password recovery feature implemented for yahoo accounts is indeed a security issue in itself. It needs fixing and it should not rely on any social factors like age, birthdates, schools etc. Those are mostly accessible today by (ab)using social network sites. Lastly I can only recommend to always use fake information based on something that can be remembered easily. Never enter your real birthdate (who needs to know that anyways? If children want to access 18+ content they are smart enough to fake it), always enter fake answers to security questions etc. dan stevens, machine fingerprinting should be completely out of the question, blocking proxies too. Reasons are simple:
First you can get e-mail everywhere, free or very cheap. I don’t think there is anyone who’d use an email service who’s fingerprinting their hard and software (on top of the data mining they already do).
Secondly you’d eliminate mobile access with that kind of attitude. Now why do you think do so many people use webmail in the first place? Right, it’s the remote access they are looking for.

And talking about security: NO ONE should use webmail providers like yahoo, google, microsoft etc. if it’s not for mobile access!

However, the password recovery feature implemented for yahoo accounts is indeed a security issue in itself. It needs fixing and it should not rely on any social factors like age, birthdates, schools etc. Those are mostly accessible today by (ab)using social network sites.

Lastly I can only recommend to always use fake information based on something that can be remembered easily. Never enter your real birthdate (who needs to know that anyways? If children want to access 18+ content they are smart enough to fake it), always enter fake answers to security questions etc.

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By: Chris http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158656 Chris Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:35:31 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158656 Mr. Kremer seems confused about the social engineering that allowed Ms. Palin's Yahoo account to be breached after a password reset from an anonymous person using a proxy. How would lengthening her password have prevented the social engineering that transpired? Wouldn't it make more sense to not allow proxies to be used? I'm told by security pros that the process for resetting the password on Yahoo is weak at authenticating the party is the true owner of the account. They are recommending that Yahoo implement multi-factor authentication and allow the customer to choose their own security questions. We had an interesting thread discussion of the topic over on Yahoo finance, but our thread was deleted by Yahoo for some reason. Why is Yahoo censoring discussion of this topic? Mr. Kremer seems confused about the social engineering that allowed Ms. Palin’s Yahoo account to be breached after a password reset from an anonymous person using a proxy. How would lengthening her password have prevented the social engineering that transpired? Wouldn’t it make more sense to not allow proxies to be used?

I’m told by security pros that the process for resetting the password on Yahoo is weak at authenticating the party is the true owner of the account. They are recommending that Yahoo implement multi-factor authentication and allow the customer to choose their own security questions.

We had an interesting thread discussion of the topic over on Yahoo finance, but our thread was deleted by Yahoo for some reason. Why is Yahoo censoring discussion of this topic?

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By: Slim http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158632 Slim Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:19:52 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158632 It's apparent that Yahoo's V.P. that resonded about the problem doesn't have a clear understanding of what actually happed to Palin's mail account. Lengthening or encrypting the password would not have prevented the social engineering that occurred. A kid without any computer hacking skills was able to access Palin's account simply because Yahoo's security questions are too easy to guess. Anyone can Google Palin and determine her zip code or where she met her husband. These questions need to be made less obvious. It’s apparent that Yahoo’s V.P. that resonded about the problem doesn’t have a clear understanding of what actually happed to Palin’s mail account.

Lengthening or encrypting the password would not have prevented the social engineering that occurred.

A kid without any computer hacking skills was able to access Palin’s account simply because Yahoo’s security questions are too easy to guess. Anyone can Google Palin and determine her zip code or where she met her husband.

These questions need to be made less obvious.

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By: Jeff Atkinson http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158626 Jeff Atkinson Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:01:07 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158626 It's clear from Yahoo's response that the V.P. of mail doesn't comprehend the problem or solution. Password strengthening would have made no difference, in the Palin situation. What actually happened is a college student was able to do social engineering on a public persona by exploiting weaknesses in Yahoo's 'password reset' feature. First and foremost, no account maintenance should ever be allowed on anyone's accounts from any proxy used to mask identity. Had the student used a foreign proxy, FBI/SS would have had a much more difficult time in obtaining logs that identified the perpetrator. Secondly, Yahoo needs to strengthen the challenge questions. For public persona, name, address, and zip code are all easily found in public records. All this individual had to do was guess on the question of where Palin met her spouse. Again, this is publicly obtained information. I work in security and have implemented systems for financial firms which are mandated by FFIEC regulations to use strong multi-factor authentication systems. If Yahoo is to be entrusted with personal information by customers, they should do the same. There are good third party software products that provide features that would have prevented the Palin incident. RSA provides a product that passively examines machine information, stores it as profile data about that user, and uses it to challenge if somebody tries to access the account from a different computer/network. Challenge questions are presented, and if failure to answer challenge correctly, the account can be frozen until customer can be contacted to confirm identity. In security terms, the "what you know" aspect of Yahoo's security questions are too easy to be social engineered from public data, and require strengthening, at a bare minimum. Again, nobody should be allowed to do account maintenance like password reset, or changing any account data from any proxy. Proxy's are the main tools used by cyber criminals to mask identity. Banning proxy traffic from its site would also help to resolve problems Yahoo has had with click fraud. spam rings, and "pay to post rings" operating on their sites. It’s clear from Yahoo’s response that the V.P. of mail doesn’t comprehend the problem or solution. Password strengthening would have made no difference, in the Palin situation.

What actually happened is a college student was able to do social engineering on a public persona by exploiting weaknesses in Yahoo’s ‘password reset’ feature.

First and foremost, no account maintenance should ever be allowed on anyone’s accounts from any proxy used to mask identity. Had the student used a foreign proxy, FBI/SS would have had a much more difficult time in obtaining logs that identified the perpetrator.

Secondly, Yahoo needs to strengthen the challenge questions. For public persona, name, address, and zip code are all easily found in public records. All this individual had to do was guess on the question of where Palin met her spouse. Again, this is publicly obtained information.

I work in security and have implemented systems for financial firms which are mandated by FFIEC regulations to use strong multi-factor authentication systems. If Yahoo is to be entrusted with personal information by customers, they should do the same.

There are good third party software products that provide features that would have prevented the Palin incident. RSA provides a product that passively examines machine information, stores it as profile data about that user, and uses it to challenge if somebody tries to access the account from a different computer/network. Challenge questions are presented, and if failure to answer challenge correctly, the account can be frozen until customer can be contacted to confirm identity.

In security terms, the “what you know” aspect of Yahoo’s security questions are too easy to be social engineered from public data, and require strengthening, at a bare minimum. Again, nobody should be allowed to do account maintenance like password reset, or changing any account data from any proxy. Proxy’s are the main tools used by cyber criminals to mask identity.

Banning proxy traffic from its site would also help to resolve problems Yahoo has had with click fraud. spam rings, and “pay to post rings” operating on their sites.

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By: dan stevens http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158523 dan stevens Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:47:51 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158523 Strengthening password has nothing to do with how Palin's account was breached. The hacker used the reset password function. There's a guy on finance message board for YHOO that said that Yahoo needs to block proxies (which is what the hacker used to remain anonymous) and strengthen the authentication processes similarly to what banks do. He described a method where machine fingerprinting is done behind the scenes by the site's owner and if no match, then there's a challenge issued before allowing password to be reset. Or, if an IP address from blacklisted sites are being used to access any account, they are rejected. This makes much sense. Who knew that these free email accounts could be breached so easily. My bank uses challenge questions that are so difficult that sometimes I can hardly remember them and have to call and speak with somebody live. I think Yahoo needs to plug this hole. Strengthening password has nothing to do with how Palin’s account was breached. The hacker used the reset password function. There’s a guy on finance message board for YHOO that said that Yahoo needs to block proxies (which is what the hacker used to remain anonymous) and strengthen the authentication processes similarly to what banks do. He described a method where machine fingerprinting is done behind the scenes by the site’s owner and if no match, then there’s a challenge issued before allowing password to be reset. Or, if an IP address from blacklisted sites are being used to access any account, they are rejected. This makes much sense. Who knew that these free email accounts could be breached so easily. My bank uses challenge questions that are so difficult that sometimes I can hardly remember them and have to call and speak with somebody live. I think Yahoo needs to plug this hole.

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By: Roger http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158509 Roger Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:48:28 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158509 Yes, DA hit the nail on the head. It's about the flawed recovery procedure. If you are going to use question/answer, why not allow the user to choose their own question and answer? Or, users should have the choice of recovering only by phone or text message. That way, they would have to lose their phone to have their password changed. Yes, DA hit the nail on the head. It’s about the flawed recovery procedure. If you are going to use question/answer, why not allow the user to choose their own question and answer?

Or, users should have the choice of recovering only by phone or text message. That way, they would have to lose their phone to have their password changed.

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By: M http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158400 M Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:27:52 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158400 Ahhh... I found the place to request a reset. Wow. Still not as easy as it should be. help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/acct/info/sqachange.html Ahhh… I found the place to request a reset. Wow. Still not as easy as it should be.

help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/acct/info/sqachange.html

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By: M http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158398 M Sat, 20 Sep 2008 03:22:54 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158398 "And then Yahoo! makes it difficult to change the secret question." Difficult? I searched all over the help site and account info page trying to find this setting. Where is it? I don't think you can change it. The only thing I've found to attempt to reduce your exposure to the recovery attack is to use an email address that's different from your Yahoo! ID AND lie about your birthday, country of residence and ZIP CODE. Once you've established an account, the only thing you can change is your ZIP. When recovering a password for an email address that is different from your ID, it will ask for the DOB, country, and ZIP. Pretty weak protection. “And then Yahoo! makes it difficult to change the secret question.”

Difficult? I searched all over the help site and account info page trying to find this setting. Where is it? I don’t think you can change it. The only thing I’ve found to attempt to reduce your exposure to the recovery attack is to use an email address that’s different from your Yahoo! ID AND lie about your birthday, country of residence and ZIP CODE. Once you’ve established an account, the only thing you can change is your ZIP. When recovering a password for an email address that is different from your ID, it will ask for the DOB, country, and ZIP. Pretty weak protection.

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By: TM http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158385 TM Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:48:04 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158385 I agree with JG. This is a good opportunity for Yahoo to revise its password recovery option. As far as I can tell, all you need is a user's birthday, country, and postal code. It doesn't matter whether you've created a wonderfully long, complex sequence of letters and symbols. It doesn't matter whether you see the right picture on your log in page. Yahoo, of course, is not alone in needing to beef up its protection of user privacy. The only solution at this point is for users to provide Yahoo with something other than their actual birthday, postal code, etc. This diminishes the usability of the MyYahoo page, and you might forget these answers, but at least you reduce the chance of a social engineering attack on your account. I agree with JG. This is a good opportunity for Yahoo to revise its password recovery option.

As far as I can tell, all you need is a user’s birthday, country, and postal code. It doesn’t matter whether you’ve created a wonderfully long, complex sequence of letters and symbols. It doesn’t matter whether you see the right picture on your log in page. Yahoo, of course, is not alone in needing to beef up its protection of user privacy.

The only solution at this point is for users to provide Yahoo with something other than their actual birthday, postal code, etc. This diminishes the usability of the MyYahoo page, and you might forget these answers, but at least you reduce the chance of a social engineering attack on your account.

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By: DA http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158178 DA Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:50:01 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158178 The recovery password feature is weak. On my account, all I have to do is answer one "secret question" and my password can be reset. And then Yahoo! makes it difficult to change the secret question. I could have the best password in the world, but all a hacker really needs to know is the answer to the "secret question". Which for some people, could be found on myspace, facebook, or Yahoo! 360. Yahoo! could do a better job of recovering passwords... The recovery password feature is weak. On my account, all I have to do is answer one “secret question” and my password can be reset.

And then Yahoo! makes it difficult to change the secret question. I could have the best password in the world, but all a hacker really needs to know is the answer to the “secret question”. Which for some people, could be found on myspace, facebook, or Yahoo! 360.

Yahoo! could do a better job of recovering passwords…

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By: JG http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158135 JG Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:25:10 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158135 How does any of this protect against the reason yahoo - palin email hack? They used the recover the password feature. How can our accounts be protected when no matter how strong the password is, you are handing it over? Will one way encryption and password resets be added? If not will recovery questions become less obvious? How does any of this protect against the reason yahoo – palin email hack?

They used the recover the password feature.

How can our accounts be protected when no matter how strong the password is, you are handing it over?

Will one way encryption and password resets be added?

If not will recovery questions become less obvious?

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By: GC http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/comment-page-1/#comment-158058 GC Thu, 18 Sep 2008 04:03:09 +0000 http://ycorpblog.com/2008/09/17/mail-security-tips/#comment-158058 I think that implementing SSL in yahoo mail would help too. In fact, i think it is necessary nowadays and needs to be standard. This would be useful so than when one is using cafe or library public wifi and want to sign into yahoo, they would have less fear that someone could steal their password. I think that implementing SSL in yahoo mail would help too. In fact, i think it is necessary nowadays and needs to be standard. This would be useful so than when one is using cafe or library public wifi and want to sign into yahoo, they would have less fear that someone could steal their password.

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